Great ideas – WHY SCALE IS A MYTH IN PHILANTHROPY with Zack Petersen

Sep 10

Kristine Michie - Playfull Podcast Interview - Zack Petersen

Great ideas – WHY SCALE IS A MYTH IN PHILANTHROPY with Zack Petersen

In a world obsessed with “scale,” what if the bravest thing a nonprofit leader can do is stay small, stay local, and get boring? In this episode of The PlayFull Podcast, Kristine Michie is joined by Zack Petersen, founder and CEO of Black Licorice. Together, they explore why traditional philanthropy's obsession with endless expansion often distracts from real, human impact on the ground. Zack shares his journey from founding the 1000 Days Fund in Indonesia to creating Black Licorice—a fellowship-style initiative that empowers charity founders in maternal health and malnutrition to master essential fundamentals like boards, budgets, strategy, and governance. From confronting donor power dynamics to embracing "the long defeat" of social change, this conversation offers a refreshing, candid blueprint for building resilient organizations that actually work.

Key Takeaways:

Treating social problems as cells in a spreadsheet can be dangerous, because it separates decision‑makers from the messy, human reality on the ground.
Showing up consistently—in person, in community—matters more for impact than chasing abstract ideas of innovation and scale.
Funding models that keep leaders in perpetual “chase mode” for capital reinforce donor control and distract organizations from their core mission.
Endowment-style thinking for nonprofits could stabilize operations and free founders to focus on service instead of constant fundraising, even though donors rarely consider this.
Strong, “boring” fundamentals—engaged boards, clear strategy, multi‑year financials, and aligned KPIs—are what actually make an organization trustworthy and effective, not shiny pitches or panels.

"When you try to break these problems down and then just put them on a spreadsheet and say, ‘Oh, this problem is more important than this problem,’ that's just a world that is wildly dangerous. And then by doing so, you're also separating yourself from the problem." — Zack Petersen

"You don't do it by pretending that one behemoth organization is going to be able to take on, you know, all this stuff in a country… it's never going to happen if it's not an army of 25 organizations by 2030 doing this.” — Zack Petersen

"You're not fighting because you think that you can win. You're fighting because it's the right thing to do. And the best thing that you can do is bring people along to the fight." — Zack Petersen

Episode References:

“Scale Is a Myth! Embrace the Long Defeat!” https://ssir.org/articles/entry/scaling-myth-doers-donors

More About Zack Petersen:

Originally from Iowa, Zack has lived and worked in Indonesia for almost two decades. He's obsessed with the boring stuff—budgets, boards, governance, strategy and KPIs. More importantly, he doesn't believe in scale. He's the founder of the 1000 Days Fund and Black Licorice and served proudly as a Peace Corps volunteer in Mauritania.

Connect with Zack Petersen:

Website: https://www.blacklicorice.org/, https://1000daysfund.org/

Connect with Kristine:

The PlayFull Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/pod cast/t he-playfull-po dcast-with-k ristine-michie-bringing-fun/id1676838213?ac tion=write-review

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/

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